I'm breaking a rule and starting a thread for once. I saw Starryfish's thread on a potential new r/s since she got bored of a stable 4 year r/s and decided to post this.

This is not directed at anyone in particular nor at women in general, but it does point out uncomfortable truths and points of view.

I see the mature (and not so mature) rants in the forum here. Guys take note. Gals, try to see a different point of view and work on yourselves too. Women today are under a great amount of stress and pressures never before experienced by prior generations. They are struggling for identity and causing untold amount of self-damage and damage to r/s.

To start off, women say they like nice guys, but actually they don't. Commitment, security, consideration etc. Sorry, it just sounds nice.

"Those are all "nice guy" traits and although they're important, they aren't going to flick those attraction switches and that part isn't up to me, attraction isn't a choice and if the rule was that nice guys attracted the hottest women then nice guys would be the prize. Women are attracted to the "bad guys", the ones that aren't tamed, that chart their own course, that are confident, don't care about other people's opinions, it's extremely masculine and that's what women want, masculinity. Alot of guys start off that way, very masculine, family life and stable r/s changes them, they become these responsible, mature, parent, spouse provider types and all these women they're with start having MLC's and start pursuing affairs with other men. They miss the masculinity and the excitement and feel they're being killed slowly by the boredom."

Quoted from another site where people deal with the simple facts that in developed societies, women account for 50% of extramarital affairs and 70% of divorce filings. Women are going into MLCs (mid life crises) by the droves and younger than ever before. "I need to find my identity", "I lost myself in the Marriage or r/s", "I just don't feel the connection anymore". Bullsh*t. They won't be having time for these if they were dealing with a husband / bf they respected and wanted to keep. But the husbands / bfs are too busy being Nice Guys and women start taking things for granted.

Guys - there is a difference between being a nice guy and a Nice Guy. Go google and read "No More Mr. Nice Guy". It'll tell you why it kills your r/s with women if you try to be the nice, considerate stereotype women SAY they want. Guys SHOULD respect women, but in our changed society, never emasculate yourself and commit r/s suicide by not commanding respect from women. Women tie feelings of love and respect very closely - they cannot love someone they don't respect. Unfortunately, boredom and stability erodes that respect in long term r/s. And there is a huge difference in providing security and commitment and being a doormat.

Gals, the remainder of this post and the next ones (if any) will make heavy reference to "Women's Infidelity - Living in Limbo", yes written by a woman, Michelle Langley. Although her study centers much in the USA, it does indicate trends that apply universally, and anyone who thinks Asian society is not converging into Western modes of behaviour is living in lala land.

Here's the first FACT. Women are no more "naturally" monogamous than men. Biochemical research indicates a 4 year sexual cycle for women. Without a marital structure in other words, women women tend to "liberate" themselves from their partner. Langley cites Helen Fisher's "Anatomy of love" and Burnham and Phelan's "Mean genes" to explain why separation / divorce / break up are most likely to occur around the 4th year of a r/s. This applies across 60 different cultures statistically.

(I hope you are reading this Starryfish).

Female sexual behaviour is governed by a few chemicals. One - Pheylethylamine, produces the feeling of infatuation, or in FP-speak, "connection", "the one", "butterflies in the tummy" and other forms of crap. As with other drugs, it is addictive and requires higher and higher doses to create the same effect. Over time, it loses its power and infatuation is replaced by a calm and stable attachment ( IMHO - true love). But this calm feeling is more like a narcotic / sedative and cannot match the rush given by the PEAs or "love" hormones. That's why so many women feel the "love" has gone, although they "care" for their SOs.

Langley herself felt bored and unhappy in her r/s for no apparent reason at one point. Her subsequent research came up with some interesting findings:

- Women are MORE likely than men to confuse sexual attraction with love. They believe that if they find the "right person, intense feelings can last. They are taught since young that they should only want sex with someone they "love". So when she desires a man, she thinks she's in love, and when the feeling fades, she thinks she's out of love or something is wrong.

- Women often speak of wanting commitment from men, but the opposite is often true. "women often form r/s with men who are emotionally inaccessible". Instead of choosing men who are interested in forming a r/s, they choose men who make them feel insecure. Insecurity creates the motivation, excitement, the thrill of the chase. Women who seek excitement within their own r/s or marriage (and many do) will often forego the possibility of real r/s for a fantasy one.

- Men want sex while women want marriage. Nope. Women often find they want to GET married, not BE married. They often love not so much their husband, but the fantasy ingrained in them since young, where the SO is no more than a necessary prop. Women look forward to the day their whole lives, and this sets them up for the big crash. They are content, even in not-so-fulfilling r/s, as long as some part of the fantasy is left to play out. When a woman wants to get married, she is prepared to overlook a lot, even be badly treated. after that, the pursuit is over, and with time the buzz drastically reduces. some then feel so stupid for even wanting it so badly in the first place. One thing that DOES change after marriage / stable r/s is the willingness of women to overlook the SO's faults. Toleration of these in the pursuit of fantasy creates repressed anger that comes out when boredom sets in.

So some food for thought, for those who have an open mind. I'll post more on r/s and marriage break-ups and the dynamics from the women's role in these, assuming the interest is there and the flames are not.

(to be frank, I'm probably wasting my time. The intellectual, linguistic, and maturity levels in this forum varies greatly but I hope SOME of you found this useful in forming balanced perspectives on havign a healthy r/s. It is done with good intentions. Cheers)